Comments on: To obey or not to obey… http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/ Re-discover, re-inspire, re-flect Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:43:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: rebelson http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-26 rebelson Mon, 03 Jul 2006 05:31:58 +0000 http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-26 That's a strong possibility, Becca, especially since any kind of obedience can only occur out of the forgiveness and freedom that God gives. The "forgiveness" itself suggests that even what we do in faithful obedience will be tainted to lesser or greater degrees by our selfish nature, worries, etc. On the other hand, even grudging obedience comes from a a small faith that trusts God and God's direction. It seems to me that we remain, always, in need of a savior! True obedience will involve the whole self: body, mind, will, sentiments. So, the only way for us to "obey" is for God to view everything we do, even those things we do in "obedience," through the lens of forgiveness. Thank you! That’s a strong possibility, Becca, especially since any kind of obedience can only occur out of the forgiveness and freedom that God gives. The “forgiveness” itself suggests that even what we do in faithful obedience will be tainted to lesser or greater degrees by our selfish nature, worries, etc. On the other hand, even grudging obedience comes from a a small faith that trusts God and God’s direction.

It seems to me that we remain, always, in need of a savior! True obedience will involve the whole self: body, mind, will, sentiments. So, the only way for us to “obey” is for God to view everything we do, even those things we do in “obedience,” through the lens of forgiveness. Thank you!

]]> By: becca http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-25 becca Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:23:24 +0000 http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-25 Maybe obedience occurs on a spectrum? The goal could be perfect accordance with God's will reflected in one's sincerity and cheerfulness in action, with rebellious disobedience at the opposite end. However, obviously we are not always able to achieve sincerity and cheerfulness in our attempts to obey, nor do we alway understand God's will (and God seems to understand both of these human failings), and so, although we should always work towards sincerity and cheerfulness in our obedience, grudging obedience is preferable to acts of disobedience. Thus, until the completion of God's kingdom (the event at which God can reasonably expect the perfect union of God's will and our own and thus can reasonably expect cheerful and sincere obedience in all our efforts), God graces our efforts at obedience (while forgiving our imperfect obedience) and thereby blesses an individual's grudging obedience over acts of determined, rebellious disobedience. Possibly anyway (if that made any sense)? Maybe obedience occurs on a spectrum? The goal could be perfect accordance with God’s will reflected in one’s sincerity and cheerfulness in action, with rebellious disobedience at the opposite end. However, obviously we are not always able to achieve sincerity and cheerfulness in our attempts to obey, nor do we alway understand God’s will (and God seems to understand both of these human failings), and so, although we should always work towards sincerity and cheerfulness in our obedience, grudging obedience is preferable to acts of disobedience. Thus, until the completion of God’s kingdom (the event at which God can reasonably expect the perfect union of God’s will and our own and thus can reasonably expect cheerful and sincere obedience in all our efforts), God graces our efforts at obedience (while forgiving our imperfect obedience) and thereby blesses an individual’s grudging obedience over acts of determined, rebellious disobedience. Possibly anyway (if that made any sense)?

]]> By: rebelson http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-21 rebelson Sat, 17 Jun 2006 04:16:35 +0000 http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-21 Great responses - thank you! Yes, it seems that if obedience and good works depend on good feelings, then we are not very focused on anyone but ourselves. Some responses off-line have described that the blessings or fruit of some disciplines become clear only long after taking them up. More important, as several of you suggest, it's not about me or my feelings--or my hardness of heart. Among other messages, that's what God was telling Jonah. Great responses - thank you! Yes, it seems that if obedience and good works depend on good feelings, then we are not very focused on anyone but ourselves. Some responses off-line have described that the blessings or fruit of some disciplines become clear only long after taking them up. More important, as several of you suggest, it’s not about me or my feelings–or my hardness of heart. Among other messages, that’s what God was telling Jonah.

]]> By: Larry Jaquish http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-20 Larry Jaquish Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:53:50 +0000 http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-20 In first Samuel we read about King Saul’s command from God to defeat the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Saul felt it was better to save the best of the fat calves and lambs to sacrifice to God. In 1Samuel 15: 22 we read “To obey is better than sacrifice.� Because Saul did what he thought was right, rather than what God commanded he was rejected as King. In 1 John 2:5 we read “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in Him.� It is so easy in our humanness to feel that we know better than God does; therefore we end up doing what we feel is right, rather than doing what God commands. In my personal walk with the Lord, my greatest periods of spiritual growth and maturity have come when I obeyed God’s call to ministry work that I did not want to do or felt complete inadequate or unqualified to do; I am called to be Christ’s obedient servant whether I like it or not. In first Samuel we read about King Saul’s command from God to defeat the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Saul felt it was better to save the best of the fat calves and lambs to sacrifice to God. In 1Samuel 15: 22 we read “To obey is better than sacrifice.� Because Saul did what he thought was right, rather than what God commanded he was rejected as King.

In 1 John 2:5 we read “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in Him.�

It is so easy in our humanness to feel that we know better than God does; therefore we end up doing what we feel is right, rather than doing what God commands.

In my personal walk with the Lord, my greatest periods of spiritual growth and maturity have come when I obeyed God’s call to ministry work that I did not want to do or felt complete inadequate or unqualified to do; I am called to be Christ’s obedient servant whether I like it or not.

]]> By: Gretchen http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-19 Gretchen Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:16:24 +0000 http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-19 Its not what you say, its what you do that matters (at least that’s what I tell my kids) .There may be more reward with a sincere attitude but to me it’s the act that counts the most. God knows we are not always going to give or do something with our whole heart. Ephesians 2:8-10 says� For it is by God's grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but God's gift, so that no one can boast about it". To me that says- God gives you this gift knowing you are not always going to do everything right. He gives it to us anyway and maybe with the hope that with time the act of good works will bring a fulfillment to our lives and leave us wanting to do more. Also, the last line says to me that perhaps we aren’t always meant to do good deeds to make ourselves feel good- its simply about serving God and others. Its not what you say, its what you do that matters (at least that’s what I tell my kids) .There may be more reward with a sincere attitude but to me it’s the act that counts the most.

God knows we are not always going to give or do something with our whole heart.

Ephesians 2:8-10 saysâ€? For it is by God’s grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but God’s gift, so that no one can boast about it”. To me that says- God gives you this gift knowing you are not always going to do everything right. He gives it to us anyway and maybe with the hope that with time the act of good works will bring a fulfillment to our lives and leave us wanting to do more. Also, the last line says to me that perhaps we aren’t always meant to do good deeds to make ourselves feel good- its simply about serving God and others.

]]> By: Parke http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-18 Parke Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:46:49 +0000 http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-18 I think of the verse, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind." (Excuse the minor corruption of my memory.) And I wonder, will I ever reach that point? Some seem to think I will someday in heaven and it's possible, as are so many things when we think about the future. I wonder though if it isn't more in line with the spiritual ancestors we have who till their death were growing in their understanding of how one loves fully. If that's the case, then perhaps there's enough grace for us to seek forgiveness for the errors we know and try again - not worrying ourselves to the point of inaction. I think of the verse, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind.” (Excuse the minor corruption of my memory.) And I wonder, will I ever reach that point? Some seem to think I will someday in heaven and it’s possible, as are so many things when we think about the future.

I wonder though if it isn’t more in line with the spiritual ancestors we have who till their death were growing in their understanding of how one loves fully. If that’s the case, then perhaps there’s enough grace for us to seek forgiveness for the errors we know and try again - not worrying ourselves to the point of inaction.

]]> By: wildstar http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-16 wildstar Wed, 14 Jun 2006 17:09:27 +0000 http://rebelson.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/13/to-obey-or-not-to-obey/#comment-16 I wonder what the connection between obedience love and relationship is... I wonder what the connection between obedience love and relationship is…

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